Straight From the Mouth

that you once did? Look at TV's 'Millionaire."

I think you can get some excitement. I don't know if you can get the kind of excitement you could get 15 years ago or even 10 years ago. Part of the problem with that is we’ve loaded these things up with so many commercials that we are turning off a lot of the young listeners. They are the ones that give a lot of energy to radio stations and propel them up the ratings ladder.

Over the last few years we've been obsessed with the Internet and morerecently, Satellite radio. Which of them do you see being the biggest player in radio's future?

Probably on terrestrial radio it will be satellite to some extent. I could be totally wrong about this. But I think that success or failure of the satellite services will be predicated on the personalities that they have. It won't be predicated on any kind of music service.

Do you think AM/FM radio as we know it, will one day be passe?

I don't think so. I think we have seen in the media era that a new media doesn't displace old media. I think that what will happen is that we are moving further and further away from the mass media era into more individualized media. I think that is going to be the use of the internet. The internet will not operate on the broadcast model. A lot of people are finding that out now. You won’t be able to put on an Internet radio station and garner a large audience and sell advertising to them.

Are you saying radio on the Internet won't succeed in the same structure as you get now on AM/FM?

You've got to turn that business model on its head. You've got to do individualized streaming media to people and sell advertising on a permission basis. That is the future of the internet and I think that will coexist with, and compliment, mass media. Because there are two countering impulses that people have; one is to have what they want when they want it, that's what the streaming media will be good for, and the other is to be connected to the larger community, and that's what broadcast media will be good for.

will eventually rely less on music?

I don't think it is going to be the drawing card that it has been in the past. There are just so many different ways to slice it. It becomes meaningless after a while. The differences are not that readily apparent.

Will we eventually run out of variations? For instance, AC. Are there anymore ways to split it?

AC is like a black hole you fall into. There is no such format as AC. AC is just a bunch of records you put together in a particular way.

With all these subdivisions of format, is it becoming more difficult for talent to stand out?

I think the good people in radio are much more spread out now in a market then what they use to be. I mean even ten years ago all the good people, in my opinion, were at KUBE, because that was my station. But we had most of the good people in the market at one or two radio stations. Now there are good people at all the stations. They all have the same research information. There is so much information, background stuff and programming secrets that are being disseminated throughout the industry. Everyone is in an incredible defensive posture. I've always said that if you say no to every idea that comes along, then you will be right 90 percent of the time. 90 percent of all ideas are crap, but you are going to miss that 10 percent, maybe 5 percent are brilliant break through ideas. But if you roll the dice all the time, then you are going to be wrong 90 percent of the time.

What about on the programming side. Is it tougher being creative?

Absolutely. I think it's awesome when people do break through with creative ideas or take a chance on anything. I think it is even more commendable today than it has ever been.

Who is the most creative programmer that you ever met?

Good question. I am really enjoying working with Bob Case, who has come been terrific. I thought Tom Poleman did a real good job with Z100 and returning it to it's roots. The format of that station is what’s happening now. It's not any certain kind of music, it's just what's happening now. You always knew that if you turned on Z100, you were going to be plugged into the latest. We lost sight of that for a while. There was too much research and too much hedging bets.

Do you think products like MTV and VH1 changed radio's style?

To a certain extent I think they have. Well, it's being in the moment. It's a great lesson for morning shows to have. I noticed that during the O.J. trial in San Francisco, KPIX had just converted to an FM Talk station and they didn't have a midday show, so they just put the OJ Trial on. You could hear the fans on in the courtroom.

How did that rate?

It was number one 25-54. And I said at the time that people would rather listen to chair scrape across the floor than to listen to the crap that we put on that we think is so important. I will give you another really creative thing, and this was back in 1977. Dave Sholin took 106 FM in San Francisco, it was called KFRC FM at that time. They gave him the station and told him to put some programming on. Well, I don't know if you remember this, but he did the Top 20 radio stations. He would start at number 20 and count down to number 1. He would do a music test, which they would sell a five minute block to record labels. They would play one of their new songs, and they would ask people if they liked it or not. Then they would start at number 20 again. They went through one book with that and he had a five share. There's a million ways to do this. You know what holds us back is the business side of it, where we get trapped by the agencies and the Sales Department. They are under so much revenue pressure, but they tend to be defensive and not be aggressive.

Where did you grow up?

In Seattle.

Did you have morning show idols you wanted to grow up an be like?

My idols came after I got into the business, when I was I traveling around a little bit. There were some big morning show guys here like Emperor Smith, and Charlie Brown, who's just a great morning talent. When I got on the road, one of my big heroes was Dr. Don, who I love to death.

Do young jocks coming up now have idols?

I think most of them are probably modeling themselves after Howard. I think Howard has been unbelievably influential in the radio business. Every young show I hear is trying to do Howard. I think every single one of them is trying to do that ironic, smart-ass, in the moment kind of thing. God bless them if they can do it.

Four or five years ago all we heard about was syndication. Yet today, it seems that the same handful of personalities who hit pay dirt in this arena years ago, still rule the roost. Who do you see in the next wave of syndicatible talent? Is that market there?

I think you make a good point about those shows. If you look at them, every morning show that succeeds in syndication is a male oriented, talk oriented show. I can’t think of a female-oriented morning show that has succeeded in syndication. I know that they are trying to do it with Rick, but I just think that when you have any music on your radio station, it just needs to be so locally targeted. It makes it extremely difficult for an outsider to come in and garner a big share of that market.

Where do you see syndication going?

I don't know. I think if you are talking in terms of mornings, I think smart companies are going to still build local morning shows. That’s the franchise that keeps the radio station going. I think smart companies are going to realize that their defense against satellite radio is to localize. I’ve heard that some of these guys in New York are tracking five or six other radio stations. I don’t see how you can be on the air and do a New York quality show and devote 10 or 20 hours a week to tracking stations in other markets. Seems like you have to hurt your New York operation by doing that.

What would you like to change most about radio?

I hate to say this, because it’s going to sound like sour grapes. I would really take a look at the Telecommunications Act. I think it might better serve the public--and this may kill me in the long run--if you had five or ten thousand small businesses as opposed to two huge ones.

But isn't the argument, it's better to have a financially healthy industry with fewer groups than one with more owners, but less successes?

It has changed and obviously there is no going back after the Telecommunications Act. It has had it's positive aspects. The key to the future is dealing with it as it is now and not pining. I certainly don’t sit around and pine for the old days. I think that if you were going to ask me what is best for the country, what is best for the industry, it might be to have more local control. One of the reasons I came to Seattle was to work for a company that owns three radio stations. It's very important for them that these three stations to do well. I worked for AM/FM. The people in that company were very important. Jimmy De Castro and Steve Rivers were guys that kept it on a human level. They were great guys. I don’t know what the big or small. It really is going to come down to the people who are running the company, whether they treat you like a human being, appreciate your talent. My feeling would be that let's make sure that when we find young people who really want to be in the business we give them an opportunity to learn and grow.

Where was your first job?

My first job was in Thompson, GA at WTWA. My dad was from Georgia and he retired down there. I wound up down there at the age of 17. I walked into a little frame house and they had me read a 60 second commercial. The next day they put me on the air.

What was the format?

Town & Country.

Town and Country?

It was block programming but every other record was a different block.

Are there still stations in places like Thompson, GA where young guys with stars in their eyes can walk into and say, "Mr. Jones, I want to be a DJ?"

I hope so. There is a tremendous number of small market radio stations that need people. Of course, they have also gotten more sophisticated now, where they are piping in people and programming. Maybe it isn’t as available as it use to be.

If you were a morning personality just starting out today, knowing what you know now, would you navigate your career differently?

I would go straight to TV. (LOL) I will tell you one thing. I think it’s great that we have things like Morning Show Boot Camp to give people more respect for what we do. A lot of people use to get into this business because it seemed like a cool job where you could hang out, have long hair, take drugs and still get a paycheck. Seriously, young jocks need to respect what we do as a craft, like acting as a craft, as singing, etc. They need to learn their craft, develop a technique. Then learn to express themselves through that technique and take it seriously. It can be a very satisfying career.

What is the most bizarre thing that ever happened in your years in radio?

Well, when I first went on Z100 in New York, there was a story in the New York Post that the headline read, "Woman Locks Child in Trunk of Car." It was one of those typical New York stories, where everyday there is a disaster on the front page of the Post. When you read into the story you found out that the woman was a single mother who wasn't getting her alimony and child support. She had to take a second job at a mall, so for that three hours she was in the store she had her child in the hatchback, not the trunk, with a blanket, some juice, a flashlight, and some comics. Now that was stupid, but it wasn't criminal. Well, Howard Stern went on and was ripping this woman up one side and down another. So we went on and said, "What about helping her out?" It became this running battle between the Zoo and Howard. He was doing an hour a day on us, and we were doing an hour a day. We both tape recorded the other's show. So we would run the tape about him talking about us and then he would go off on us again. This went on for a week, until we prevailed and the woman was released from custody and the child was given back to her. All these church groups were raising money for her. It was bizarre. It was really my first taste of that New York battle. That was a seven share month.

And probably your greatest victory against Stern ever.

That was the greatest victory we ever had with Howard because we engaged him. By the way, he finally sent us a C&D to get us to stop playing tapes of him on the air. That also showed me something. He can dish it out but he can't take it.

By the way, we have to ask. And for the record, we're doing so November 6th. Who is going to win the presidential election and what's the final number going to be?

My initials are GWB, so I think that the next president will have my initials. He'll probably win by about 47 or 48 percent to Gore's 42 or 43 percent. That's what my internal polling is showing me anyway.

How many years have you actually been in the business?

Since I was 17. So over 30 years.

Do you consider yourself a survivor?

Absolutely. I'm the last one voted off the radio island.